Pakistan Floods

[mona]

Anybody home? BC must really be dead if I have to start a thread about this, 4 weeks after the fact. Having said that, I'm shocked about media coverage on this issue in general. Do I hear the words disaster/donor fatigue?

So this is pretty much the worst natural disaster in our times. 17 million people affected, hundreds of thousands needing to be evacuated, 5 million left homeless. Add to that the food, water and medical shortages. We know these well, but this is just on a ridiculous scale.

It's the holy month of Ramadan, I'm interested, what is your community doing to help their fellow Muslims?

The Islamic community here is very tight knit. At the local mosque, every Friday, Saturday and Sunday each ethnic community (e.g. Somalians, Bangladeshis, South Africans) provide Iftar and dinner for fellow Mosque attendees. That's three days out of seven, for four weeks. Now this is all very well and good, and shows a great sense of community spirit but, in light of recent events, it seems soooo unnecessary to be spending thousands of dollars feeding people who can feed themselves just fine when others are truly going hungry. Now, I don't hang around the Mosque and don't know for sure that they've gone on with this three days a week tradition, or perhaps saved the money one day and donated it (hopefully they have). I think it would really have been in the true spirit of Ramadan to forego the scheme for the whole month and donated all the money to the flood victims. After all, you can never give too much in these situations.

Here's the latest:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11095267

[Neel Here]

mona, please don't mind me butting in but which organisation did you donate to ? are there any reliable people you know who actually do work on the ground ?

many people are very reluctant to donate this time around because of what happened in the 2005 kashmir earthquake, where the aid money was almost completely stolen by the pakistani military. even relief material was not spared, medicines and other items were sold off in open market rather than be distributed to the affected.

even this flood has reached such proportions because rich landowners have diverted flood waters away from their farmlands to residential areas of poor people.

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by mona
Anybody home? BC must really be dead if I have to start a thread about this, 4 weeks after the fact. Having said that, I'm shocked about media coverage on this issue in general. Do I hear the words disaster/donor fatigue?

Im afraid to say, the lack of a thread, has nothing to do with the activity of the FC section, which has been quite active.

And I would hardly say this is the worst natural disaster in our times, such a statement is ludicrous, casualties have not barely exceeded two thousand.

And Id like to reiterate Neel's point.

[mona]

Originally Posted by Neel Here
mona, please don't mind me butting in but which organisation did you donate to ? are there any reliable people you know who actually do work on the ground ?

UNICEF. And no I don't know anybody. But I'm not going to let an event that occurred 5 years ago prevent me from giving the system the benefit of the doubt. For all it's flaws, I think the UN if anybody, have the ability to get the aid where it's needed. In any case, so far I haven't heard anything about utilities getting in the wrong hands, just that there isn't enough of them. I think people who don't donate are just looking for excuses.

Nafi, I probably should have used the word 'arguably' or said 'one of' or whatever. Silly me for trying to make an absolute statement, not that it matters. The 'death toll' sounds impressive, but there are other, equally important, ways of measuring impact.

[Neel Here]

But I'm not going to let an event that occurred 5 years ago prevent me from giving the system the benefit of the doubt.

of course, I had forgotten that pakistan has turned over a new leaf over the past five years, the army has stopped interfering in politics (so much so that the military council unilaterally increases the tenure of the army chief and the PM later calls a press conference to give it the pretense of a decision by a democratically elected govt) and doesn't enrich itself anymore at the expense of the common people (and I'm not talking of legitimate military spending either)

this is a country that calls for $ 54 billion foreign debt to be written off because of floods but spends anywhere between $ 8-12 billion every year on military.

this is what happened to aid that was given in 2005.

Earthquake aid millions spent elsewhere, claims paper

* From: AFP
* August 14, 2010 9:22PM

MORE than £300 million ($520 million) of aid to help rebuild parts of Pakistan after the 2005 earthquake was diverted to other projects, a British newspaper has claimed.

The Daily Telegraph, citing unnamed senior Pakistani officials, said there were fears this diversion of funds would put off foreign donors from giving money to help 20 million people currently affected by heavy floods.

"There's reluctance, even people in this country are not giving generously into this flood fund because they're not too sure the money will be spent honestly," opposition leader Nawaz Sharif told the newspaper.

The paper said more than £300 million of aid for the 2005 earthquake, which killed more than 73,000 people, has yet to be handed over to Pakistan's Earthquake Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Authority.

It cited one senior official in the body as saying they were told in March 2009 that 12 billion Pakistan rupees was being diverted from their budget to other government projects.

"When we have the money we will pay you," the unnamed official said that ERRA directors had been told. "All the money was given by Western governments, but they said 'we have so many other problems'."

In June this year, ERRA staff were again told their budget was being cut, from 43 billion rupees for 2010-11 to just 10 billion, the newspaper said.

The paper also said it had visited the town of Balakot, where 5000 people were killed in the earthquake. Despite a promise to rebuild it on a new site, no new roads had been completed nor had building construction begun.

Pakistan's finance secretary, Salman Siddiq, denied any foreign aid funds had been diverted and told the paper: "No cuts were imposed last year."

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said on Saturday that 20 million people had been affected by the worst floods in the country's history, for which the United Nations has appealed for $US460 million ($513.22 million) in aid.

you are perhaps quite alone in giving the system the 'benefit of the doubt' because of corruption that happened 5 years back. most expat pakistanis don't trust the govt and for very good reason, I believe they are better informed than you are ?
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...od-aid-efforts

In any case, so far I haven't heard anything about utilities getting in the wrong hands, just that there isn't enough of them.

perhaps you haven't followed the news of relief work of the 2005 earthquake once the media hoopla died down ?

coming to UNICEF, on pressure from pakistan govt UN has appealed for aid to be sent to a swiss bank account with no independent monitoring of funds, a highly suspicious event. I'll let you form your own opinions on the matter.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...qhl5AD9HQKLU80

look, I do respect your concern for the victims but a few points need to be remembered,
a) pakistan is not a normal country in the sense we are used to the term, it's rather a country by, for and of the army, probably the only such entity in the world, PA is the largest land owning and corporate body in pakistan. to put it in a nutshell, whatever money you send, without private enterprise it will not be able to bypass the army's greedy hands
b) if you think that the responsibility ends with sending money then you might actually be making life worse for the people you want to help. aid money during the 2005 earthquake was even used to set up terrorist training camps in the area and trust me that doesn't improve the living standards of the locals one-bit. do you want your money to be used to kill people ?
c) all I'm saying is, spend a bit more effort and find someone from pakistan who will actually send the money to the people in need and not just hand it over to some middleman who will throw it away on whisky and a BMW or worse, AK-47's.

[MohammedC]

Why should Bangladesh help flood victim of Pakistan?
Bangladesh suffered many floods in her young life since 1971. How many times Pakistan came forward with helping hands. In UK there are so many Bangladeshi tv channel which are raising money for Pakistani flood victims. There are Pakistani channels also who are raising money. But they never do anything when Bangladesh have floods or many other natural disasters we suffered.
Pakistani in uk always used to mock about our flood. "Bangal paani ki niche gir geya" with a twinkle of a smile. I feel sorry for Pakistani flood victims but my money is going to my poor people in Bangladesh.

[Habib]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Why should Bangladesh help flood victim of Pakistan?
Bangladesh suffered many floods in her young life since 1971. How many times Pakistan came forward with helping hands. In UK there are so many Bangladeshi tv channel which are raising money for Pakistani flood victims. There are Pakistani channels also who are raising money. But they never do anything when Bangladesh have floods or many other natural disasters we suffered.
Pakistani in uk always used to mock about our flood. "Bangal paani ki niche gir geya" with a twinkle of a smile. I feel sorry for Pakistani flood victims but my money is going to my poor people in Bangladesh.

Well said Mo vai. Totally agree with you.

[ialbd]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Why should Bangladesh help flood victim of Pakistan?
Bangladesh suffered many floods in her young life since 1971. How many times Pakistan came forward with helping hands. In UK there are so many Bangladeshi tv channel which are raising money for Pakistani flood victims. There are Pakistani channels also who are raising money. But they never do anything when Bangladesh have floods or many other natural disasters we suffered.
Pakistani in uk always used to mock about our flood. "Bangal paani ki niche gir geya" with a twinkle of a smile. I feel sorry for Pakistani flood victims but my money is going to my poor people in Bangladesh.

I understand your point MohammaedC bhai. There were countless times some Pakistani friends on campus made mocking reference to our flood situations (and 'machhli' jokes followed right after), but pretty soon I have learned to ignore them. I think I have seen more scornful, mocking remarks thrown at Bangladeshis from our so called 'Brothers' than Indians or anyone else.

But maybe this is our chance to be the bigger person. We can contribute anything (doesnt matter if its really small) and most importantly pray to the Almighty to help all the people in distress. Ofcourse this wont change the way most them think about us any way, but this will certainly count where it 'matters' inshAllah....

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
Why should Bangladesh help flood victim of Pakistan?
Bangladesh suffered many floods in her young life since 1971. How many times Pakistan came forward with helping hands. In UK there are so many Bangladeshi tv channel which are raising money for Pakistani flood victims. There are Pakistani channels also who are raising money. But they never do anything when Bangladesh have floods or many other natural disasters we suffered.
Pakistani in uk always used to mock about our flood. "Bangal paani ki niche gir geya" with a twinkle of a smile. I feel sorry for Pakistani flood victims but my money is going to my poor people in Bangladesh.

I agree with this, whenever I hear Pakistanis talk about Bangladesh floods, theyre mocking Bangladesh.

[Neel Here]

Ali Sethi in NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/op...pagewanted=all

gist of the story : the town of jacobabad with a population of 200,000 was artificially flooded by pakistan army to protect the jacobabad air base with its shiny new F-16s and the farmland of a local landowner. the aircrafts could easily have been flown to some other air base but hey its always easier to drown the poor sods right ?
the army's role was suppressed in pakistani media because 'it is unpatriotic to question the military'. unsaid, it means the ISI will kidnap you and your family would never see you again.
this is the system that we are supposed to give the benefit of doubt to.

[_Rafi_]

If anyone wants to donate then should donate materially. Monetary donations will be pocketed by Zardari and co. surely.
Btw I have seen worse disasters in Bangladesh...the coastal areas of BD still suffering severely from the effect of SIDR and ALIA.

[Zeeshan]

They are flood victims not Pakistani flood victims. Period. Glad to see how some of your spirits are soaring high in this "month of Ramadan."

[Ajfar]

Jjust because so and so didn't help us doesn't mean we shouldn't help them. The people that are in dire need of help right now probably didn't have any money donate to us when we needed it. Its always the poor ones that suffer. Every where I go I hear from so many Bangladeshi people we are so much better than them (them as in our subcontinent counterparts) If we are so much better than them, than shouldn't we be doing things that they don't do. It doesn't matter who mocks us or what they do when we are in need. At the end of the day we are all human beings and when someone needs help, we should do whatever we can in the best of our ability. And its not always with money, even a small gesture like remembering them in your prayer is a lot.

[BanCricFan]

To be perfectly honest- some of the ignorant posts here makes me sick to my stomach!

Name me which government in our region isn't corrupt. The effort to divert this thread really is in utter bad taste. Also, what some Pakistanis thinks of us or their pathetic jokes about our floods can never be an excuse not to help the distressed and helpless ones...let them be pakistanis or israelis. Our beloved Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, " Good behaviour in return of good behaviour is not good behaviour. Good behaviour despite the bad behaviour (from others) is truelly good behaviour". And the poet said, " kukurer kaaj kukur koreche kamor diyeche pai tai bole ki.....".

Let us rise to the level of humanity together in this blessed month and ask Allah to soften our hearts!

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
To be perfectly honest- some of the ignorant posts here makes me sick to my stomach!

Name me which government in our region isn't corrupt. The effort to divert this thread really is in utter bad taste. Also, what some Pakistanis thinks of us or their pathetic jokes about our floods can never be an excuse not to help the distressed and helpless ones...let them be pakistanis or israelis. Our beloved Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, " Good behaviour in return of good behaviour is not good behaviour. Good behaviour despite the bad behaviour (from others) is truelly good behaviour". And the poet said, " kukurer kaaj kukur koreche kamor diyeche pai tai bole ki.....".

Let us rise to the level of humanity together in this blessed month and ask Allah to soften our hearts!

Needs to be quoted.

[Bancan]

You guys are pathetic. they are humans. ignore their nationality. Help out your fellow human beings. Some of you need to grow the hell up.

[mona]

Thank you very much Neel for the info. All of the concerns are very much valid however, I'm not going to spend sleepless nights wondering if my 50 bucks to UNICEF will end with me having blood on my hands. What does distress me though, is the images on TV of people desperately rushing for food packs and clean water as they try and stick to the only place they know as home. All I know is that millions of people need help, many organisations, like the UN, are still calling for help (despite the fears raised), and that many people aren't helping at all. So, in a very small way, I did.

Just speculating about your UN link about secretive Swiss bank accounts, etc - the agency in question from your link, this International Telecommunication Union, is actually based in Geneva. So I'm guessing, though it could be a stretch, that is why they posted a Swiss Bank Account. Much like the way I payed into an Australian bank account when making my donation to UNICEF Australia.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I would never give an inch of benefit of any sort of doubt to the Pakistani government, only to those organisations trying to work around them. From now on I'm keeping my ears open though, so thanks again for bringing it to my attention.

And WOW. 'They laugh at us when we have floods, so I'm not gonna help them' - if that's the general mentality in Pakistan and BD, it perfectly somes up why both countries are in the state they're in.

In latest news, half a million people need to be evacuated as the destruction reaches the 6th largest city, Hyderabad in the south, where the river has swollen 10 times its normal width. Aid workers stay put, despite terrorist threats.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...ed-to-evacuate
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1...on-aid-workers

[Ashfaq]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
To be perfectly honest- some of the ignorant posts here makes me sick to my stomach!

Name me which government in our region isn't corrupt. The effort to divert this thread really is in utter bad taste. Also, what some Pakistanis thinks of us or their pathetic jokes about our floods can never be an excuse not to help the distressed and helpless ones...let them be pakistanis or israelis. Our beloved Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, " Good behaviour in return of good behaviour is not good behaviour. Good behaviour despite the bad behaviour (from others) is truelly good behaviour". And the poet said, " kukurer kaaj kukur koreche kamor diyeche pai tai bole ki.....".

Let us rise to the level of humanity together in this blessed month and ask Allah to soften our hearts!

Seconded.

[Murad]

You guys can make donations through Imran Khan (ex cricketer).

Imran Khan Flood Relief Fund

[FagunerAgun]

Originally Posted by BanCricFan
Name me which government in our region isn't corrupt. The effort to divert this thread really is in utter bad taste. Also, what some Pakistanis thinks of us or their pathetic jokes about our floods can never be an excuse not to help the distressed and helpless ones...let them be pakistanis or israelis. Our beloved Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said, " Good behaviour in return of good behaviour is not good behaviour. Good behaviour despite the bad behaviour (from others) is truelly good behaviour". And the poet said, " kukurer kaaj kukur koreche kamor diyeche pai tai bole ki.....".

Let us rise to the level of humanity together in this blessed month and ask Allah to soften our hearts!

A post of general conscience and humanity, which is very difficult to uphold in the world of intimidation, disrespect and humiliation.

[simon]

It's a shame that we started a thread on this issue after so long,thanks to Mona.
And it's ridiculous to think what they did to us,we will do the same to them.

[Nafi]

Originally Posted by Murad
You guys can make donations through Imran Khan (ex cricketer).

Imran Khan Flood Relief Fund

Now that is something I can believe in.

[yaseer]

Originally Posted by MohammedC
I feel sorry for Pakistani flood victims but my money is going to my poor people in Bangladesh.

Agreed with this, people of Bangladesh needs it and they come first.

[zman]

if there's a bright side to all this, at least we won't have to deal with these bloody floods for too long, right?

Sorry to digress but since the issue of floods has been raised I couldn't help but draw our attention to the Indian River Linking Project undertaken by the Indian Govt that will in all likelihood not cause the kind of disaster we've grown accustomed to rather threaten the livelihood of more than 100 million people in our country.

"Indian plans to divert vast quantities of water from major rivers, including the Ganges and Brahmaputra, threaten the livelihoods of more than 100 million people downstream in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshi government fears."

"The idea of linking these rivers is very dangerous.It could affect the whole of Bangladesh and be disastrous," said Hafiz (uddin) Ahmad, the water resources minister. "The north of Bangladesh is already drying out after the Ganges was dammed by India in 1976. Now India is planning to do the same on [many of] the 53 other rivers that enter the country via India. Bangladesh depends completely on water."

"But the plan - which could cost between £44bn and £125bn and take at least 14 years to implement, making it potentially the largest and most expensive water project in the world - would redraw the subcontinent's hydrological map with immense ecological and social consequences. It involves building hundreds of reservoirs and digging more than 600 miles of canals. Preliminary estimates by environment groups suggest that more than 3,000 square miles of land could be flooded and 3 million people forced off their land. India's national water development agency, which is backing the scheme, has said it will divert enough water to irrigate 135,000 square miles of farmland and produce 34,000 megawatts of hydroelectricity. However, much of the electricity would be needed to pump the water around."

"This could trigger a long-term disaster on the subcontinent and trigger bloodshed in the region," said Shashanka Saadi, of Action Aid Bangladesh.

I first learned about this project from Dr. Feroz Ahmed, a distinguished professor of civil/environmental engineering at BUET. He's considered one of the leading authorities in the area of Environmental Impact Assessment and has been conducting studies and research on the possible impact of this gigantic undertaking for more than a decade. I first met him in the D.C. area few years back where he came to conduct a workshop at the World bank to raise awareness about the potential dire impact of the project. He told me India had surreptitiously fast tracked the project and was implementing it at alarming speed and he had concrete proof in the form of sedimentation samples he collects from our river beds. In his words, the rate at which our rivers are losing water is very ominous and quite inconceivable to the lay person. I haven't been in touch with him for few years now but does anyone have the latest info. on this project of doom?

[deshifan]