Put off my Dhaka trip

[zman]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
^^^ that's "they" are hopping for...
I hope the army keep themselves out of this nasty politics.

I wonder if this is the time for the hundred and thousands of Projonmo Chottor activists to come out and stand against the two evils to save the sufferings of the general people and help form a govt. without the known corrupt politicians...

Question is which party will supply the biryani packets this time!

[adamnsu]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
^^^ that's "they" are hopping for...
I hope the army keep themselves out of this nasty politics.

The political parties are at total deadlock. The way people are being killed and the whole economy is suffering, only the army can and should control the situation now to bring law and order.

Our country is unfortunately embedded with nasty politics. The people have negative patriotism. The situation can only get worse from here if nothing is done.

Funnily enough, there has been a huge display of determination to get war criminals tried for crimes they committed many years ago, however there is almost silence amongt these ferverent supporters for justice for the victims of BDR mutiny and Rana Plaza case.

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by roman
You can run but you can never hide from these 2 wicked ladies..We don't have an alternative. Thats the ruthless truth. And those 2 (I'll get banned if I say what I think of them) $&@# know very well that no matter how many times we jump up and down like a monkey, we will eventually end up electing one of them. So no chinta do furti. Jalao gari porao desh. Ei ta to amader baap aar jamaiyer desh.

And no matter how badly we want this nuisance to stop, it wont stop until we get a strong 3rd party. And no..Ho Mo Ershad is not the answer. And I don't see a strong 3rd party rising anytime soon

I wonder is it not the time for Projonmo generation to come out to the street and organize a mass-movement against these corrupt political parties like they did against the war-criminals of '71 from Shahbag Chottor?

[roman]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
I wonder is it not the time for Projonmo generation to come out to the street and organize a mass-movement against these corrupt political parties like they did against the war-criminals of '71 from Shahbag Chottor?

Lol..loved what zman bro said regarding projonmo generation. Couldn't have said it better

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by zman
Question is which party will supply the biryani packets this time!

Originally Posted by roman
Lol..loved what zman bro said regarding projonmo generation. Couldn't have said it better

Well, I don't believe ^^^ that was the case. They stand up because of their believes.

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
I wonder is it not the time for Projonmo generation to come out to the street and organize a mass-movement against these corrupt political parties like they did against the war-criminals of '71 from Shahbag Chottor?

Very true; They were so enthusiastic about justice for what happened 40 years ago, but seem to not care about justice and peace today

[Blah]

What grinds me is not that some people thinks that "Projommo Chottor" was a grass-root movement (it wasn't), but the idea that it actually accomplished something. It actually accomplished nothing, the so-called international crime tribunal were going along their merry way regardless of what the "projommo chottor" thought or did.

Even the idea that the justice and legal system should be swayed by or influenced by mass hysteria is a very dangerous idea. You don't want the legal system to be influenced by external pressure. You want the legal system to follow the laws.

The "projommo chottor" movement was more like "me too" mentality. They wanted their own pseudo movement like the ones going on all over the world. They wanted to gather around cliche-filled, large circular monuments thingies, stay there all night and all day, sing along till they get what they wanted. The only difference being, they weren't actually fighting against the status quo, or the political corruption, or the injustice in our present time, or fighting for the right of the garments workers, traffic jams, or load-shedding or the thousands of things that are wrong with the country and needs immediate attention.

They were "fighting" for something that was going to happen in its own schedule in favor of what they wanted, regardless of what they thought. It was a manufactured movement, doesn't mean some of the people who participated in it didn't think otherwise.

[Zunaid]

Quite succinctly and lucidly put there, Blah.

And I do agree with you that the projonmo chattor was not a grass root movement. If it were, it would not have dissipated as easily as it had. The other reason the momentum faded was because the "movement" was driven less by justice for the martyrs of the liberation war than by calls for death. I was originally quite excited to see the youth in Bangladesh rallying once again for a just cause - with the hope that the movement would then spread its wings to speak against injustice. Instead - the continuous baying for death and attempts to manipulate the legal system put me off.

I guess they did see themselves as kindred in spirit to the protests going on elsewhere in the world at that time - Tahrir Square, the Arab Spring, and the Occupy movements. But foreign observers and the press (even non Western ones like Al Jazeera) saw very little to distinguish between the rioting Jamaatists after the verdicts and the Shahbag crowds calling for death.

Death cannot be the basis for change.

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by Blah
Even the idea that the justice and legal system should be swayed by or influenced by mass hysteria is a very dangerous idea. You don't want the legal system to be influenced by external pressure. You want the legal system to follow the laws.

Agree ^^^, if the country is Denmark, or so...

If the country is Bangladesh, where politicians manipulate the law and the lawyers are partisans, people need to stand up to seek/influence justice until the justice system is fair and free from manipulations IMHO.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
Agree ^^^, if the country is Denmark, or so...

If the country is Bangladesh, where politicians manipulate the law and the lawyers are partisans, people need to stand up to seek/influence justice until the justice system is fair and free from manipulations IMHO.

Two wrongs don't make it right.

With that line of thinking BNP and Jamat is well within it's right and justified to do all the damage and killings in the name of protest. Because AL did the same, if not much worse, when they were fighting for election time administration when BNP was in power.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
Quite succinctly and lucidly put there, Blah.

And I do agree with you that the projonmo chattor was not a grass root movement. If it were, it would not have dissipated as easily as it had. The other reason the momentum faded was because the "movement" was driven less by justice for the martyrs of the liberation war than by calls for death. I was originally quite excited to see the youth in Bangladesh rallying once again for a just cause - with the hope that the movement would then spread its wings to speak against injustice. Instead - the continuous baying for death and attempts to manipulate the legal system put me off.

I guess they did see themselves as kindred in spirit to the protests going on elsewhere in the world at that time - Tahrir Square, the Arab Spring, and the Occupy movements. But foreign observers and the press (even non Western ones like Al Jazeera) saw very little to distinguish between the rioting Jamaatists after the verdicts and the Shahbag crowds calling for death.

Death cannot be the basis for change.

I too fell for the trap, coincidentally I was reading "Manufactured Consent" by Noam Chomsky during that time. It influenced a lot of my thinking on politics. Highly recommended.

[kalpurush]

Originally Posted by Blah
Two wrongs don't make it right.

Agree
But, there is only one wrong! ^^^

Sometimes "Law" is made to benefit the current govt. by amending the constitution. This law might not benefit the mass people, but that specific political party only, thus, public has to stand up to upheld their rights and so.

With that line of thinking BNP and Jamat is well within it's right and justified to do all the damage and killings in the name of protest. Because AL did the same, if not much worse, when they were fighting for election time administration when BNP was in power.

Sorry! Can't agree here!!
No political party has the right to kill or damage public property.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Blah
I too fell for the trap, coincidentally I was reading "Manufactured Consent" by Noam Chomsky during that time. It influenced a lot of my thinking on politics. Highly recommended.

I thought I noticed the Chomsky in your "manufactured movement" phrase. Unlike the American media, the Bangladesh media is manufacturing consent in support of the system by direct coercion and collusion and not via self-censorship and dependencies on the market forces as posited by Chomsky and Herman. Yes, I too highly recommend the book.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
Agree
But, there is only one wrong! ^^^

Sometimes "Law" is made to benefit the current govt. by amending the constitution. This law might not benefit the mass people, but that specific political party only, thus, public has to stand up to upheld their rights and so.


Sorry! Can't agree here!!
No political party has the right to kill or damage public property.

True, but that is exactly what they are doing, aren't they. Both. And the third, fourth, fifth ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

[Blah]

Originally Posted by kalpurush
Agree
But, there is only one wrong! ^^^

Sometimes "Law" is made to benefit the current govt. by amending the constitution. This law might not benefit the mass people, but that specific political party only, thus, public has to stand up to upheld their rights and so.

If you disagree with the law you go after the "law makers" not the "lawyers". The lawyers don't make the law. Projommo Chottor were demanding death sentence regardless of the due legal process or the law. That's just stupid and dangerous. You don't want to encourage that kind of sentiment whether you are in Denmark or Bangladesh.

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by Blah
If you disagree with the law you go after the "law makers" not the "lawyers". The lawyers don't make the law. Projommo Chottor were demanding death sentence regardless of the due legal process or the law. That's just stupid and dangerous. .

Of course when that movement was in full swing, saying the above would ensure you would be branded a Rajakar.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Banglatiger84
Of course when that movement was in full swing, saying the above would ensure you would be branded a Rajakar.

If he said that how could he be anything else?

Please note sarcasm.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Zunaid
I was originally quite excited to see the youth in Bangladesh rallying once again for a just cause - with the hope that the movement would then spread its wings to speak against injustice. Instead - the continuous baying for death and attempts to manipulate the legal system put me off. .

Doc, was Shahbag Square or PC ever about 'change' for a better Bangladesh? Was there ever even the slightest justification for even guarded optimisim? After all this is Bangladesh where even an awesome thing can become FUBAR in no time.

From what I read, SS/PC started off as a how-dare-a-mullah-get-life protest from the very beginning and was cleverly co-opted by the BAL machinery. Unlike most, Im all for revenge and retribution - but only of the guilty if its absolutely certain. 'Better ten guilty men go free than a single innocent man go wrongfully punished' goes the old maxim.

The snowball effect was obvious as daylight. Shahbag happens --> Rajib gets assassinated --> religious based politics ban is called for --> Hefajot + demands are born --> current mire.

In conclusion Bangladesh is a country terribly suited to democracy because we are really a country of 2 dictatorships masquerading as rule of the people. Bad blood has been brewing since 1991 and now the lines have been drawn. It will only get worse and a compete fracture of Bangladesh may not be as far-fetched as we might think. The two nation theory kicks on.

[Banglatiger84]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
If he said that how could he be anything else?

Please note sarcasm.

He could always be a "chhagu", which was the then-contemporary term for anyone skeptical of the movement.

[Shubho]

Interesting things crawling out of the woodwork now.

All I know is this: If it walks like a rajakar, talks like a rajakar and smells like a rajakar, it is a rajakar.

[Zunaid]

Originally Posted by Shubho
Interesting things crawling out of the woodwork now.

All I know is this: If it walks like a rajakar, talks like a rajakar and smells like a rajakar, it is a rajakar.

Sounds like you are invoking the Bangladesh version of Godwin's law.

I hereby consider my very first world problem OP now entirely hijacked.

Let us just invoke the Lord's Prayer and retire.

[nahaz]

I am in Bangladesh right now, and am stuck in an apartment with family. Not great.

What is worse is I do not see this ever changing. The problem is not the two evil "neta/netris". It is the millions who support the idea of there being only one type of politics existing in th ecountry, and that is their own type. If you are Awami supporter BNP should not exist. If you are BNP, Awami League should not exist. If you are Jamaat, democracy (and Bangladesh??) should not exist.

I fully condemn the disgusting violence and murder of 100s of people in the name of politics. However, I am 90% sure that the party in power will not do the same if in opposition. The other 10% is hope. Hope that the public rejects the violent brand of politics in this country.

I do not see the mass in Bangladesh as intelligent. It IS all of you who are responsible for those in power being total loonies. A true patriot with good intentions will never be able to rule this country, Because you, the public, do not support it.

[al Furqaan]

Originally Posted by Shubho
Interesting things crawling out of the woodwork now.

All I know is this: If it walks like a rajakar, talks like a rajakar and smells like a rajakar, it is a rajakar.

All brown people smell like geera, roshon, and other spices.

[Shubho]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
All brown people smell like geera, roshon, and other spices.

Yes, we smell like curry. That's why I use a shedload of cologne. I recommend Givenchy.

[Shubho]

Originally Posted by nahaz
I am in Bangladesh right now, and am stuck in an apartment with family. Not great.

What is worse is I do not see this ever changing. The problem is not the two evil "neta/netris". It is the millions who support the idea of there being only one type of politics existing in th ecountry, and that is their own type. If you are Awami supporter BNP should not exist. If you are BNP, Awami League should not exist. If you are Jamaat, democracy (and Bangladesh??) should not exist.

I fully condemn the disgusting violence and murder of 100s of people in the name of politics. However, I am 90% sure that the party in power will not do the same if in opposition. The other 10% is hope. Hope that the public rejects the violent brand of politics in this country.

I do not see the mass in Bangladesh as intelligent. It IS all of you who are responsible for those in power being total loonies. A true patriot with good intentions will never be able to rule this country, Because you, the public, do not support it.

Couldn't agree more. We are indeed all responsible for the jackasses that we have elected to power.

Might I also add that the so-called "intellectuals" in our country (a la Jonatar Durbolota leader Mo Yunus, Bikalpa Dhamra leader Boda Chowdhury, Gono Flop leader Kamal Hossain) have totally failed us as well. These idiots should have joined hands a long time ago to create a true third force in our political system. Instead, they are all making lofty pronouncements from their ivory towers and setting up one-man parties. WTF! It would be SO nice to have a viable alternative to vote for.