Debate: Do you like the idea of the Burqa/Niqab/Full cover garment

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
According to any gender development index you look at, some of the worst countries for women will include muslim countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Afghanistan etc.

Best countries include countires like:
Iceland,Norway,Australia,Canada,Ireland,Sweden,Swi tzerland, Japan etc.

But yeah.. keep believing Burqahs are not a tool for subjugation of muslim women worldwide

What a logic. Full of gobor you know where.

There are women out there who feels free without showing their cleavage in public. Try meeting some, widen your horizon then come and post here. It's funny how MEN in this thread are debating a girls right to wear what she wants... the irony. TV really got to them... that's what happens when all you do 24 hours is watch tv and movies and not meeting people.

No one is talking about any countries here where even basic human rights are not respected.

[Jadukor]

I dont need to broaden my horizon to ashley madison levels. Thank you

[Yankees]

For those of you saying it is a personal choice, I agree. However, the reality is that it is hardly a personal choice. Muslim countries tend to treat women very unfairly. The extreme patriarchy and conservative culture means that women don't have a voice. Society and government might let them choose to wear whatever they want, but family pressure won't.

I do think burqas are outdated, as well as other religious garbs (like turbans for sikhs). If the only way to show your devotion to God is by what you wear, then you are doing it wrong. Burqas are also an Arab thing, which is not synonymous with Islam. Asian muslims have a tendency to venerate Arabs, even though countries like Saudi Arabia are some of the most backward, vile, disrespectful, racist countries lead by rulers who have committed every sin in the book.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

70 lashes if you oppose... yet apparently these women feel being uplifted per some delusional men...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89TNxTWK1CE

[SportingBD]

Question: How do you know if the women has been forced to wear the burqa etc?
like has there been a survey done of all the muslim women around the world?

or lets just pick for example Saudi, was there a survey conducting of say 500,000+ muslim womens? what was the outcome of the survey? The survey could easily ask something like..

Are you forced to wear the Burqa or you do it voluntarily to fulfil your religious obligation?

Please do share any surveys etc that has large sample size..

^Also, I wouldn't pick Iran to represent the whole Muslim nation.
Plus that video only has 3,000+ views, I can pick random videos from youtube and show many muslim womens do it for modesty and in fulfilling their religious duty.

Thanks in advance.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Question: How do you know if the women has been forced to wear the burqa etc?
like has there been a survey done of all the muslim women around the world?

or lets just pick for example Saudi, was there a survey conducting of say 500,000+ muslim womens? what was the outcome of the survey? The survey could easily ask something like..

Are you forced to wear the Burqa or you do it voluntarily to fulfil your religious obligation?

Please do share any surveys etc that has large sample size..

^Also, I wouldn't pick Iran to represent the whole Muslim nation.
Plus that video only has 3,000+ views, I can pick random videos from youtube and show many muslim womens do it for modesty and in fulfilling their religious duty.

Thanks in advance.

Why don't you do a survey on yourself. Try going out with a veil, do not drive and do not go out without a male companion, do all this for a month and than tell me how you like it.
You are welcome.

[SportingBD]

Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Why don't you do a survey on yourself. Try going out with a veil, do not drive and do not go out without a male companion, do all this for a month and than tell me how you like it.
You are welcome.

Ha what strange way to avoid my question by counter questioning, very silly tactics.

If you don't have concrete evidence to prove that most muslim women are forced to wear the burqa except fulfilling their religious obligation why try to suggest "muslim women" are forced to do so?

It feels like you have a very silly tactic. very unfortunate to be honest.

I asked for a survey or concrete evidence to show the number of women's forced to wear the burga and the number of women's that voluntarily wear the burqa due to their religious obligation. Wouldn't it be clear if we had some data? instead of spreading the conception that muslim womens are forced to wear the burqa. what percentage of muslim women are forced? compared to what percentage wear due to their own acceptance of fulfilling their religious obligation?

bad, very bad way of answering tonmoy, very silly.

[Night_wolf]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
According to any gender development index you look at, some of the worst countries for women will include muslim countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Afghanistan etc.

Best countries include countires like:
Iceland,Norway,Australia,Canada,Ireland,Sweden,Swi tzerland, Japan etc.

But yeah.. keep believing Burqahs are not a tool for subjugation of muslim women worldwide

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...nder-equality/

wow i didn't expect Bangladesh to be more equal than India on that map...even better BD is the most equal in the sub con!

[DinRaat.]

The idea of the burqa, is the most backwards thinking idea for women. How can one be subjected to having no freedom what so ever. To the extent for not being allowed to move around freely

[DinRaat.]

Go on yahoo answers and type in saudi arabia leave, you will get over 4000+ results

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by SportingBD
Ha what strange way to avoid my question by counter questioning, very silly tactics.

If you don't have concrete evidence to prove that most muslim women are forced to wear the burqa except fulfilling their religious obligation why try to suggest "muslim women" are forced to do so?

It feels like you have a very silly tactic. very unfortunate to be honest.

I asked for a survey or concrete evidence to show the number of women's forced to wear the burga and the number of women's that voluntarily wear the burqa due to their religious obligation. Wouldn't it be clear if we had some data? instead of spreading the conception that muslim womens are forced to wear the burqa. what percentage of muslim women are forced? compared to what percentage wear due to their own acceptance of fulfilling their religious obligation?

bad, very bad way of answering tonmoy, very silly.

Before calling me silly, I want you to look at your replies.

1/I provided a link to a video. Since you cannot deny the information on it so your defense was "Oh look only 3K views!!!" And your second defense was " Oh look thats Iran and I wont go there", I guess your hatred of Iran is because they are Shia.
I must mention that Persians have a long and glorious history and culture. Even after thousands of restrictions, Iranian movies are still some of the best in the world.

2/ Next you asked for stats from Saudi!!! What the hell... this is a country where you are lashed and kept in prison for even minimal dissent... You are crazy to expect women to come out and provide you with stats.

My concrete evidence is every human for himself..... No one likes to be oppressed. Ask yourself if you would like for yourself what you ask these women to do.

[mufi_02]

This thread has great potential !!

[iDumb]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
This thread has great potential !!

indeed! these days most of posts in this site are black and white... no complexity.

Thread is about Muslim garb and people talking about oppression of women in saudi arabia? ki aar bolbo? Saudi =/ Islam

The discussion is more complex than "i am for it, I am against it".

To ban a religious garb from state level, one has to be careful not to cross the line of religious intolerance. You can not say Islamic garb is banned but Buddhist garb is allowed. Freedom of religion needs to be respected. Also freedom of individulity needs to be maintained. Intolerance of certain religion needs to be avoided.

Now should a garb compromise the security of a nation... (not percerived security but actual security - it's imperative to make this distincition as "perceived" here is another word here for intolerance, prejudcie ) - then a certain restriction should be placed.

So yes, Burqa probably should not be allowed in most nations but people these days rarely wear them anyway. But when discussing this you have to be careful not to mix it up with hijab/other religious garb ... You may know the difference but when discussion religious garb for a wider audience - they don't make those distinction and will support complete ban of islamic clothing... and that in my opinion is dangerous.

One of the poster here even mentioned he thinks Sikh turbin archaic? I mean seriously? Who are you to pass judgement on a religion 100s of years old and still currently in practice... that's is the definiton of religious intolerance.

If certain clothing is not compatible with current society.. .it will take care of itself... ie.. there will be no jobs, opportunity for you and ultimately it's survival of the fittest.

anywyas there is not point of writing so much in a thread frequented by not so clear thinkers.

[SportingBD]

Unfortunately I can't respond to Tonmoy. I have promised to the elders here to stay away from this kind of discussion. I can't disappoint them after the trust they have shown in me. Just got carried away. Thanks for the reminder, Night_wolf.

[Zeeshan]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
This thread has great potential !!

So religious ushkani muluk thread, that incites people is what I should be targeting at? Note to self.

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
So religious ushkani muluk thread, that incites people is what I should be targeting at? Note to self.

Although this particular topic for me is a no-brainer but seems like it is not for a lot of people. So healthy debate is important. Religion should not get a free-pass at everything.
This thing called "hurting religious sentiments" is an absolute bull.

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by tonmoy.dhaka
Although this particular topic for me is a no-brainer but seems like it is not for a lot of people. So healthy debate is important. Religion should not get a free-pass at everything.
This thing called "hurting religious sentiments" is an absolute bull.

Top post

[mufi_02]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan
So religious ushkani muluk thread, that incites people is what I should be targeting at? Note to self.

Yes and I'm glad you already acted upon it

[Jadukor]

The thread is not about whether state should ban veil niqab etc but rather how one feels about it. I believe women have the right to dress however they want provided they are not forced into it and when it is not a security risk.

In terms of how i personally view the veil... i think it is a symbol of domination of men over women stemming from a patriarchal culture. It sheds girls of their own identiny as a person seperates them from social interaction with men and isolates them as a private property. When i walk through the malls i sometimes come across many fully veiled women from the middle east walking with their husbands in shorts, and i cannot help but feel sorry for their lives. Your face is your identity and what kind of life is it if you are forced to cover it up and walk around being invisible to the rest of the world.

I hope for a day when women across all muslims countries will be empowered to make their own choice and the terrible records of oppression, domestic abuse, honor killing, stoning etc will give way to a more tolerant and free societies where women are viewed as equals and not someone who stays home and cooks for you.

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by iDumb
One of the poster here even mentioned he thinks Sikh turbin archaic? I mean seriously? Who are you to pass judgement on a religion 100s of years old and still currently in practice... that's is the definiton of religious intolerance.

the fact that its 100s of years old is the very definition of archaic.

Nothing against sikhism but just because something has been practiced for 100s of years doesn't mean its automatically right or that I shouldn't pass judgment. Christians used to commit genocides/conquests/inquisitions in the name of God, Hindu women would have to jump into their husband's funeral pyre, not to mention the stonings of homosexuals in chirstianity, judaism, and still practiced in some islamic countries. If I said these are wrong, would you acuse me of being intolerant towards religion?

So yea I have every right to pass judgment on a religion. Just because its a religion shouldnt automatically give it immunity.

[mufi_02]

^ are you really comparing religious genocide (by all religion) to the customs of sikh males wearing turban ?? That is a hyperbole and extrapolation in the degree..I just can't. Enough internet and bichi logic for me today

[al Furqaan]

Why is this a debate topic in an all-male forum?

Its like if a bunch of bengali aunties were all talking about morning wood...

[Yankees]

Originally Posted by mufi_02
^ are you really comparing religious genocide (by all religion) to the customs of sikh males wearing turban ?? That is a hyperbole and extrapolation in the degree..I just can't. Enough internet and bichi logic for me today

I don't think you can read if thats what you got out of it.

[Rifat]

Originally Posted by Jadukor
I believe women have the right to dress however they want provided they are not forced into it and when it is not a security risk.

I have full respect for this underlined view

In terms of how i personally view the veil... i think it is a symbol of domination of men over women stemming from a patriarchal culture. It sheds girls of their own identiny as a person seperates them from social interaction with men and isolates them as a private property. When i walk through the malls i sometimes come across many fully veiled women from the middle east walking with their husbands in shorts, and i cannot help but feel sorry for their lives. Your face is your identity and what kind of life is it if you are forced to cover it up and walk aroheund being invisible to the rest of the world.

Most women who wear the niqaab(even the US, though it is a minority) is done by choice. Only two countries i think of that impose it at state/government level is Saudi and Iran(correct me if i am wrong)


I can easily make a counterargument about how there is a whole industry dedicated to the objectification of Women's body for profit in which case men or other satanic creatures telling women how to behave, and what is her worth purely based on her sexual appeal. It goes both ways.

I have posted this link before a few years back on another thread, fascinating debate on CNN on what I call "Egyptian Cat Fight"

[tonmoy.dhaka]

Originally Posted by al Furqaan
Why is this a debate topic in an all-male forum?

Its like if a bunch of bengali aunties were all talking about morning wood...

It is the majority or the Strong who must protect the weak... who do you think forced burqa on women?
Always remember REAL MEN ARE FEMINIST...